Who really discriminates?

[Chocolatesmoothie]

I'd also like to add that I am really f*cking sick of the kind of racist victim-blaming that black women are subjected to in these kinds of discussions. Why can't whites ever take any f*cking personal responsibility for their racism? They're always trying to direct blame from themselves towards blacks. Not enough men for black women to have relationships with? It must be because black women are close-minded, not because white and other non-black men have been conditioned by racism to not touch black women with a ten-foot pole. The sad thing is that lots of blacks accept this bullshit and unfairly blame their own people for problems that aren't totally their fault.

hey this is an excellent comment, thank you for understanding t-rex. 

[Tyrannosaurus]

I'd also like to add that I am really f*cking sick of the kind of racist victim-blaming that black women are subjected to in these kinds of discussions. Why can't whites ever take any f*cking personal responsibility for their racism? They're always trying to direct blame from themselves towards blacks. Not enough men for black women to have relationships with? It must be because black women are close-minded, not because white and other non-black men have been conditioned by racism to not touch black women with a ten-foot pole. The sad thing is that lots of blacks accept this bullshit and unfairly blame their own people for problems that aren't totally their fault.

thank you so much for your defense of black women.

You're welcome, it was a great thing to get off my chest.

[Dawn]

I'd also like to add that I am really f*cking sick of the kind of racist victim-blaming that black women are subjected to in these kinds of discussions. Why can't whites ever take any f*cking personal responsibility for their racism? They're always trying to direct blame from themselves towards blacks. Not enough men for black women to have relationships with? It must be because black women are close-minded, not because white and other non-black men have been conditioned by racism to not touch black women with a ten-foot pole. The sad thing is that lots of blacks accept this bullshit and unfairly blame their own people for problems that aren't totally their fault.

thank you so much for your defense of black women.

[Tyrannosaurus]

I'd also like to add that I am really f*cking sick of the kind of racist victim-blaming that black women are subjected to in these kinds of discussions. Why can't whites ever take any f*cking personal responsibility for their racism? They're always trying to direct blame from themselves towards blacks. Not enough men for black women to have relationships with? It must be because black women are close-minded, not because white and other non-black men have been conditioned by racism to not touch black women with a ten-foot pole. The sad thing is that lots of blacks accept this bullshit and unfairly blame their own people for problems that aren't totally their fault.

[Tyrannosaurus]

Why are there so many wm/aw couples? A two year study by economist Ray Fisman found that:

"We found no evidence of the stereotype of a white male preference for East Asian women. However, we also found that East Asian women did not discriminate against white men (only against black and Hispanic men). As a result, the white man-Asian woman pairing was the most common form of interracial dating—but because of the women's neutrality, not the men's pronounced preference. Men don't seem to discriminate based on race when it comes to dating. A woman's race had no effect on the men's choices."

You can cross reference this with the posting here: http://www.dawnali.com/lovinmysistas/index.php?topic=2351.0

We're a black woman demonstrates that she gets tons of attention from white men. Of course, she had no intention of dating a white man, she created a fake profile just to amuse herself and boost her ego.

So, we can ask ourselves the real question. Why are there so few bw/wm couples? Because black women discriminate against white men. It's that simple. They make excuses, like white men are evil, slave owners, and have ice cold p*nises. But the truth is most of them cannot get over their racist prejudices.

If skin color is a consideration in dating, if you feel alone because no black men pay attention to you, if you can't get over some mental imagery of slavery, then you are the problem. It's not that white men aren't willing to give everyone an equal opportunity, it's you that chooses to reject such advances.

I'm skeptical of this study because people lie on surveys all the time. A lot of white men probably have very strong preferences but aren't willing to admit them to pollsters for fear of being labeled racist or having a weird fetish.

I think this study is more reliable, as it's less likely to have suffered from that methodological issue, and it shows that blacks are more willing to date outside their race than whites.

[Dawn]

i think black women who like men (meaning are not lesbians) fall into 5 major categories:

1.  low self esteem desperate black women who will take ANY man.  she has no standards at all.  this woman will be with ANY man of ANY race.  she just wants a man in her life at all times.

2.  this group is similar to group # 1, but the difference is they ONLY like NON black men.  however, they have no standards for the non black man.  ANY non black man will do, and preferably white.  this type of woman not only has low self esteem, but has a hate for the black race as well.  you will usually find that she wants to quickly have a baby with any non black man that will have sex with her.  her self esteem is built around having "light skin babies with good hair."

3.  this group is open to all races of men, but has standards.  she doesn't care about his race, as much as she care about the man meeting her standards.  she usually does not have a huge preference for any race of man.  she just wants a good man that she is attracted to.

4.  this group is similar to group 3; however, they have more of a preference for black men, but are willing to be with other races of men.  she however, has higher standards for other races of men than she has for black men.  that is mainly because interracial dating is not the easiest thing to do, and feels that her family and friends need to understand why she is with a race of man other than a black man.  the non black man will need to be very good looking or "rich" (aka has a NICE car and nice house).

5.  this group is nothing but a black man group.  this woman will ONLY date/marry a black man.  there is nothing anyone can say or do to change her mind.

i believe numbers 3 and 4 are the most common.  however, i think most white men believe most black women fall into the categories of either 1 or 2 (because they think we are desperate aka EASY), or number 5 because they automatically assume we hate white men.  furthermore, when a number 3 or 4 woman rejects them, they can easily assume that she's a number 5, but she isn't.

the woman at the 3:40 minute mark of this video is the perfect example of #2. 

[Dawn]

i didn't read what you said yet hunnybunny...i don't have time right now, i'm about to go grocery shopping, but i'll read it when i get back.  however, i wanted to respond to you right quick to tell you hi and that i missed you!  welcome back!

[HunnyBunny876]

I like that breakdown Dawn - it captures everything perfectly.

With regards to what Andy wrote - I do believe the blame lies on both sides. Americans, especially blacks and whites, have a huge ton of racial baggage that they need to resolve. This is especially true with regards to bw/wm unions. The black women in # 5 - the black man only group - are very vocal with their sentiments, and you know America, when it comes to minorities, one represents all. So many wm have that in the back of their minds. On the other hand, many white men are also laden with BS stereotypes as well, and somehow think that approaching black women requires a PhD or something. No. Black women are women. When you learn that, then you probably won't have a problem. Yes, there may be category 5 women who might shoot you down. But for most, as long as your approach is respectful, see where it goes from there. More likely than not, you won't be rejected outright. If she does reject you, maybe she is already occupied with another man, etc. Race is not necessarily the factor. Absorb that fact please. 

Again, this is a thing that is peculiar to the United States. In Europe, this is no biggie, and it is not at all unusual to see bw/wm pairings. They are so common and established that no one bats an eyelid like they are apt to do in the US. White guys approach black women like they would any other type of woman. The BS stereotypes of black women are largely perpetuated by the US media, and thank God people over there don't consume as much American TV. Plus, on the part of black women, there is none of the fetish bogeyman talk that a lot of black people stateside engage in to discourage bw/wm relationships. Yes, there are fetish artists, but these are in the minority and are easily spotted. You'll know one when you see him. I wish I could find the link to the article, but there was an article written in about 1992 regarding the aw/wm pairings, when it was just beginning. The article mentioned that a lot of ww didn't  like this, and often disparaged these unions as a fetish - to get the AW to back off. It didn't work. Plus, like I said, any woman with common sense can sniff this type out a mile away. It's not as if they are undercover with their foolishness.

[Vashti Lebron]

Interesting break down.

[Dawn]

Dawn I am sorry but I can not really see how you can have it both ways. The supposition that white men are not running over like a house on fire to date black women and black women placing barriers up to that are directly related. I do agree with you on individual preference and that people are not attracted to every man / women they meet. That is just human chemistry no fixing that, but placing barriers in the way prevents those same men from stepping forward. Speaking as a man , I can positively tell you no man regardless of color will jump through excessive hoops to date any woman, she either has to be sending the signal that she wants his attention or she is sending the signal she is not interested.

Men that get the brush off might try a couple of times before they go onto greener pastures, but they are not going to sit around and pine for unobtanium.

response to words in red - i really don't understand what you mean here.  please give quotes and examples.  p.s.  notice in my example group 5 is the ONLY group not interested in dating outside of their race.  however, EVERY race of women has a group 5 in it. 

p.s.s.  every race has a group 4 as well.  meaning if they date outside of their race, that person has to be of high financial status or good looks.  NOTE:  you will find that (group 4) with many white women who date/marry chase after and target black male pro athletes.

p.s.s.s. group 2 is probably the most unique to the black race.

p.s.s.s.s. groups 1 and 3 can be found in all races of women as well.

so please explain to me what you mean...i don't get it?

[Sal Paradise]

Dawn I am sorry but I can not really see how you can have it both ways. The supposition that white men are not running over like a house on fire to date black women and black women placing barriers up to that are directly related. I do agree with you on individual preference and that people are not attracted to every man / women they meet. That is just human chemistry no fixing that, but placing barriers in the way prevents those same men from stepping forward. Speaking as a man , I can positively tell you no man regardless of color will jump through excessive hoops to date any woman, she either has to be sending the signal that she wants his attention or she is sending the signal she is not interested.

Men that get the brush off might try a couple of times before they go onto greener pastures, but they are not going to sit around and pine for unobtanium.

[Chocolatesmoothie]

great post dawn

[Dawn]

i think black women who like men (meaning are not lesbians) fall into 5 major categories:

1.  low self esteem desperate black women who will take ANY man.  she has no standards at all.  this woman will be with ANY man of ANY race.  she just wants a man in her life at all times.

2.  this group is similar to group # 1, but the difference is they ONLY like NON black men.  however, they have no standards for the non black man.  ANY non black man will do, and preferably white.  this type of woman not only has low self esteem, but has a hate for the black race as well.  you will usually find that she wants to quickly have a baby with any non black man that will have sex with her.  her self esteem is built around having "light skin babies with good hair."

3.  this group is open to all races of men, but has standards.  she doesn't care about his race, as much as she care about the man meeting her standards.  she usually does not have a huge preference for any race of man.  she just wants a good man that she is attracted to.

4.  this group is similar to group 3; however, they have more of a preference for black men, but are willing to be with other races of men.  she however, has higher standards for other races of men than she has for black men.  that is mainly because interracial dating is not the easiest thing to do, and feels that her family and friends need to understand why she is with a race of man other than a black man.  the non black man will need to be very good looking or "rich" (aka has a NICE car and nice house).

5.  this group is nothing but a black man group.  this woman will ONLY date/marry a black man.  there is nothing anyone can say or do to change her mind.

i believe numbers 3 and 4 are the most common.  however, i think most white men believe most black women fall into the categories of either 1 or 2 (because they think we are desperate aka EASY), or number 5 because they automatically assume we hate white men.  furthermore, when a number 3 or 4 woman rejects them, they can easily assume that she's a number 5, but she isn't.

[Dawn]

another thing that i want to add is this.  sometimes women reject men, any man, all men, race has nothing to do with it.  for example a black woman may reject a white man for the same reason that she may reject a black man, or for the same reason a white woman may reject a white man.  in other words she just may not be interested.  could be because she's seeing someone or other reasons.

i think white men automatically assume that if a black woman is not showing interest in them or rejects them is because of his skin color.  many times it's not.

[Dawn]

I'm going to agree with Chocolate on the fact that white men are not banging down doors to get with black women.

i too agree.

[Chocolatesmoothie]

thank you sal. I enjoy your contributions as well. 

[Sal Paradise]

I understand Sal. I am not saying that black women are perfect or that it's ALL white men's fault. I think some black women do need to open up a bit more and I think alot of black women have a defense mechanism that makes them short or not respond well to white men. But I also think its partially because white men don't pursue black women like they should if they want a different response. So yes I think black women should open up a bit more, but I still think its a man's job to pursue.

I  will not disagree Chocolate I think your right, the man needs to be forward enough to step up and say something. But a man can only say he is interested in so many ways...

Thank you by the way I learn a lot from you and I really appreciate it..

[Chocolatesmoothie]

and also i've had white men be very rude to me as a black woman and I've been aroudn white men my whole life and I've never been asked out on formal date by a white man. The most I've gotten is a look here or there or a hug. I've only ever been formally asked out by black men (older black men) and a couple latino men. never a white man.

[Chocolatesmoothie]

I understand Sal. I am not saying that black women are perfect or that it's ALL white men's fault. I think some black women do need to open up a bit more and I think alot of black women have a defense mechanism that makes them short or not respond well to white men. But I also think its partially because white men don't pursue black women like they should if they want a different response. So yes I think black women should open up a bit more, but I still think its a man's job to pursue.

[Chocolatesmoothie]

well maybe if more white men pursued black women then we wouldn't reject wm so much...ever think of that...ur a buisness man u know every no brings you closer to a yes...yes?

[Sal Paradise]

well white men need to be more aggressive and maybe white men should try to date and have sex with black women more...

While you may have a point to a degree Choclate please let me give you my perspective for just a bit. I have on a couple of occassions dated black women and they were lovely companions and dates. In both cases we just were not mutually compatible, no harm no fowl there on their or my behalf. The spark just was not there.. Still though both ladies were wonderful dates and we both had a great time, that is what dating is about. Seeing if you have some common ground for a furthance of the relationship. Both ladies were both very outgoing and made it possible for me to strike up a conversation and introduce myself, this made it possible for me to ask both ladies out.

I have been shut down though many many more times than I have had an opportunity to date. Black women in many cases did not want to even consider the possiblity of dating me. I think I am a nice person, I am polite (some say to a fault) , and I always behave as a gentleman. But the way I have been treated on occassion when displaying some interest is that you would have thought I made a rude improper advance and said something vulgar. 

What I am trying to get at is that it is a two way street, they ladies have to show some sort of interest and make it possible for the man to chat her up and ask her out. Yes if the lady and I were to hit it off and there was an attraction I would love to be mutually intimate.   

Hope that helps...

[Saturn]

Oh, boy!

[AndyChow]

if they aren't looking for sex, then they're looking for  friendship...because last i checked most men at some point whether in a serious or casual relaitonship are looking for sex...

Maybe a man is looking for a serious relationship. Sex is important, yet secondary.

the man is supposed to be the pursuer...white men who like black women need to pursue black women...and then we'll open up once more white men start openly pursuing black women probably...

Why would men pursue women who openly reject them? First accept us, then we'll pursue you. Another example of putting the cart before the horse. It's like black women screaming at the stove: "first give me heat, then I'll give you wood, maybe".

[Chocolatesmoothie]

the man is supposed to be the pursuer...white men who like black women need to pursue black women...and then we'll open up once more white men start openly pursuing black women probably...

[Chocolatesmoothie]

if they aren't looking for sex, then they're looking for  friendship...because last i checked most men at some point whether in a serious or casual relaitonship are looking for sex...

[AndyChow]

well white men need to be more aggressive and maybe white men should try to date and have sex with black women more...

What is white men don't like to be aggressive? What is they aren't looking for sex?

[Chocolatesmoothie]

well white men need to be more aggressive and maybe white men should try to date and have sex with black women more...

[AndyChow]

i'm sure most white men have warm pensies...besides a p*nis is a p*nis is a p*nis...who really cares at the end of the day...as long as the guy respects you and it feels good who cares...

LOLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Regarding the topic at hand, I do think that many black women are closed off when it comes to dating interracially.  Most do want a black "king" to be with.   But at the same time, it's not as if white men are falling over themselves to date black women.  White men are not being rejected left and right by black women who have a mental block keeping them from getting somewhere with a white (non-black) man.   

But I can believe that the few white men who approach black women are rejected a lot based on their race.

Thank you. Finally, someone who acknowledges my pain.

[Vashti Lebron]

i'm sure most white men have warm pensies...besides a p*nis is a p*nis is a p*nis...who really cares at the end of the day...as long as the guy respects you and it feels good who cares...

LOLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Regarding the topic at hand, I do think that many black women are closed off when it comes to dating interracially.  Most do want a black "king" to be with.   But at the same time, it's not as if white men are falling over themselves to date black women.  White men are not being rejected left and right by black women who have a mental block keeping them from getting somewhere with a white (non-black) man.   

But I can believe that the few white men who approach black women are rejected a lot based on their race.

[Saturn]

I'm going to agree with Chocolate on the fact that white men are not banging down doors to get with black women.

[AndyChow]

umm no because i never said white men had cold p*nises i was quoting someone else. I never said I didn't like white men...

So if you haven't said any of that, and didn't make those comments, then why would you think my post was directed at you? It doesn't make sense. Obviously, my comment had nothing to do with you. I have no idea why you felt so targeted.

[Chocolatesmoothie]

umm no because i never said white men had cold p*nises i was quoting someone else. I never said I didn't like white men...

[AndyChow]

^^^ But if you feel so strongly that the shoe fits...

I mean, if you feel strongly that this is directed at you, maybe you need to analyse your own psychology. Because nothing I wrote would attach my comments to you. Perhaps you have some unconscious feelings of guilt.

[AndyChow]

wel then why are you referencing my comments and talking about cold p*nises if u weren't directing this at me?

I don't think I was referencing any of your comments, and as far as I know, you aren't the one that made a comment about cold p*nises.

[Chocolatesmoothie]

wel then why are you referencing my comments and talking about cold p*nises if u weren't directing this at me?

[AndyChow]

and the woman who put the ad on craigslist likes to date white men read her other articles, she wasn't just amusing herself or boosting her ego

It's irrelevant if she dates white men or not. She set up a fake profile to boost her ego. Why else set up a fake profile? To conduct an experiment? Right...

And no, this post is not directed towards you. Not everything revolves around you.

[Chocolatesmoothie]

and the woman who put the ad on craigslist likes to date white men read her other articles, she wasn't just amusing herself or boosting her ego

[Chocolatesmoothie]

i'm sure most white men have warm pensies...besides a p*nis is a p*nis is a p*nis...who really cares at the end of the day...as long as the guy respects you and it feels good who cares...

[Chocolatesmoothie]

oh please andy. if you're directing this at me, i clearly said that I didn't believe that white men had cold p*nises, I also said that I didn't care about the slave owner thing, I was just stating why SOME OTHER black women might have reservations...okay so all white men are just busting down black women's doors...and its ALL BLACK WOMEN'S FAULT, i suppose...boy please!

[AndyChow]

Why are there so many wm/aw couples? A two year study by economist Ray Fisman found that:

"We found no evidence of the stereotype of a white male preference for East Asian women. However, we also found that East Asian women did not discriminate against white men (only against black and Hispanic men). As a result, the white man-Asian woman pairing was the most common form of interracial dating—but because of the women's neutrality, not the men's pronounced preference. Men don't seem to discriminate based on race when it comes to dating. A woman's race had no effect on the men's choices."

You can cross reference this with the posting here: http://www.dawnali.com/lovinmysistas/index.php?topic=2351.0

We're a black woman demonstrates that she gets tons of attention from white men. Of course, she had no intention of dating a white man, she created a fake profile just to amuse herself and boost her ego.

So, we can ask ourselves the real question. Why are there so few bw/wm couples? Because black women discriminate against white men. It's that simple. They make excuses, like white men are evil, slave owners, and have ice cold p*nises. But the truth is most of them cannot get over their racist prejudices.

If skin color is a consideration in dating, if you feel alone because no black men pay attention to you, if you can't get over some mental imagery of slavery, then you are the problem. It's not that white men aren't willing to give everyone an equal opportunity, it's you that chooses to reject such advances.